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Washington Women’s Heritage Project records, 1900-2000 
University of Washington Libraries Special Collections 
Helen Green Ansley 
May 10, 1985 
Cassette 3, Side 2 
 
 
Debra Ryan  00:05 
This is Debra Ryan, and I'm here in Helen Ansley's home in Issaquah, Washington, on May 10, 
1985. This is our third interview, and this is the third tape, side B.  
 
Helen Ansley  00:24 
Well, when I first came up here to this Seattle area, well, I found an apartment and settled in 
Bellevue, but I expected to be just doing jigsaw puzzles and playing solitaire and, lo and behold, 
here I was with-- being busy. But the first thing I did, was when all my belongings arrived, there 
was time to put things in order. And then I went back through papers that accumulated, threw 
some away, but got some in order, and started my scrapbooks. And I-- these new, loose-leaf, 
these scrapbooks where you can just turn back a pile of film, a page of [?pile?] film, and put a 
picture in. You don't have to paste and you can rearrange. They're so easy. So, if I get into the 
newspaper, or if I have a program that I'm on, I come home and stick it in my scrapbook. Well, 
that first few months that I was up here, I was arranging things from my life in Berkeley and in 
Cleveland, and it's not too orderly, but at least I've got them there. And I finally discovered, I 
have to have two different kinds of scrapbooks. One I called my career, starting, really, mostly 
since I was 75. Some that goes back to some of the things I did with the league before. But then 
the other kind are my personal life, pictures of my family, you know, the graduation of the 
grandchildren, and wedding of some grandchildren, all the personal things are in there. But in my 
career albums, it's amazing. I'm dumbfounded. I have filled nine albums since I've been in 
Bellevue. It's because one thing led to another. Evidently-- wow, the-- what will I say? The 
business part of aging, academia, and all the bureaucracies we're still emphasizing what's wrong 
with it, what's wrong with it, and we have to take care of them. That's where the jobs are, taking 
care of the older people. There were, in all of the different fields, people who didn't agree with 
what was being done and were very glad to get me in to express some of their ideas. I didn't 
realize at first, how startling the things I was saying were to some of the people here, because 
here the emphasis was all on what's wrong with aging, even in the churches, I think. But part of 
it is that we have learned to accept how to live longer. But the other thing is that while we live 
longer, there's no place for us anymore, because the families are all broken up. When you're-- 
you live across the continent from your children, then your spouse dies. What do you do? Will 
the children rescue you by taking you to where they live, whether you have anybody there you 
know, or fit in, or not? And that's where a lot of the loneliness, and I think some of the illness 
comes when you're completely transplanted. And yet, we know we can't live alone. Anyway, I've 
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always worked on problems since my mother and father did, and so when I realized the problem 
up here, I became involved in trying to find solutions. One, I've done it very much 
independently. I've gone to different classes when asked, different churches, but for a while, I 
had the one group to work with, and that was when we organized the Telos Program. Telos is 
spelled T-E-L-O-S, and it is the Greek word meaning fulfillment. There was a young woman was 
getting her master's at Bellevue Community College, who heard me speak at the university in a 
class, and then, because of that, went back to the SAGE group in Berkeley, and had some 
training. And she came to me after she came back, and said, Helen, let's start something like 
SAGE up here. So what we-- we met with some of the people at the Bellevue Community 
College. They were anxious to do something on aging and didn't know what. And we did start 
the Telos Program for Older Adults, and that has been going now since the fall of 1976. This was 
Joy Carey that I worked with, and first, we did two classes called, A New Image of Aging before 
we got really the Telos thing started. The New Image of Aging was simply, we got people over 
65 who would risk it. They didn't pay anything. We weren't paid. I was doing it as volunteer. Joy 
was doing it as as part of her studying for her masters. But we found that, in many places in 
Bellevue, there was interest and concern for a better old age and for those problems. So we've 
had that program of Telos that's been going now ever since the fall of 1976. And they usually 
have somewhere around 200 people involved now. The first classes we started with, there were 
39 attending, and I think we were offering five different classes to choose from. It has become 
quite popular, but unfortunately, it's pretty much limited to Northwest Community Center. The 
Bellevue Parks and Recreation were interested and offered us that location for a while. I don't 
think we paid anything at first for that. We don't pay very much now, but we continue there. But 
we haven't had financing. We've had something furnished by Bellevue Community College, a 
place-- an office on the campus, and a small amount for a salary for a director, but-- and we don't 
charge much for the classes, but we've had to raise prices, but we've been-- they, oh, they offered 
exercise classes. We offered art classes with Reva Levine, and Rabbi Levine taught us-- I think 
that was Old Testament. We've had some outstanding people come, some retired teachers, who 
come and teach, and they find it is lots more fun to teach older people, because they know their 
experience, have experience to go on. So now, there-- offer a variety of classes. At first, we got 
more of the holistic health because that was what Joy and I were emphasizing, but-- and we 
offered some gentle tai chi for the older adults. So it has been a place where people could make 
new friendships. That was what I was looking for, something to replace my SAGE group friends, 
because when I got up here, there was no one here but my family. Well, there was one person on 
Mercer Island that I had known for a while back in Cleveland all-- around the 1930s, and she left 
with her husband when they were the army in the '40s. I went to California, but she was the only 
person here that I had known at all before. Nobody that harped back to my childhood at all, and 
it's a very lonely thing, particularly when you're surrounded, in a way, by people who have 
grown up together, and there are a lot of people in Bellevue who have grown up together. And 
it's hard to be-- so it was fun starting Telos, and I'm glad to see a lot of people profited by it now 
and still enjoy it, but it took me back, just doing some other things, because back in Cleveland, I 
don't know whether I mentioned on one of the earlier-- [telephone rings]. [Laughs.] 
 
Debra Ryan  11:15 
So, so this is through the Telos Program. That's how you met Rabbi Levine.  
 
Helen Ansley  11:23 
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Yes. 
 
Debra Ryan  11:24 
Tell me more about your relationship with Rabbi. 
 
Helen Ansley  11:28 
Well, I took one of his classes. We got him to teach there at Telos, and one here-- I was able to 
talk religion, and he was talking religion, and he was glad to have somebody there. The amazing 
thing was, we found I was six months older than he was. Since then, he's-- he taught several 
years at Telos, but he has just finished a book, it's at the publishers. It should come out this fall, 
called Profile-- Profiles in Service. And he asked me to, he sort of interviewed me and asked him 
to write some things. And he did. He's written a section about me and will have my picture in it. 
So I'm sort of anxious to see what all he's going to say, but he felt that the starting of Telos had 
been a great contribution to this community, and he's trying to do that. Well. But anyway, I got 
involved in trying to get the ideas that I'd had, some of them, from back in Cleveland. But then, 
through my legal and voter study and SAGE, I had lots of ideas, you know, and people again, 
asking me. And one of the things that we-- I revived, was my talk that I had written for the 
Cleveland Mental Health Association. When we-- I did-- we were doing adult education, trying 
to explain what mental health was, and that was back in 1948. But it was called, The A's and the 
FFIGs, Psychobabble Translated. And what I had done was to take-- I took the language of the 
psychologist, which is so many four syllable words and the different ones don't agree, and I 
translated it into the language of nutrition. I called the talk Psychobabble Translated, and I'll tell 
you briefly that there are five A's, the feelings that make you feel good. These are the vitamin 
emotions, and they are acceptance in a group of equals, appreciation of ourselves, of others, of 
our differences. Affection, when what happens to somebody else affects us, when there are 
bonds, the bonds of affection that tie you to some other people. And as you get older, those get 
broken. And achievement, when you have some purpose in life, something you're doing, some 
reason for doing, making some progress, that's very necessary. And then the fifth A is 
amusement. I added that after I got out here, after I got to California, because then Norman 
Cousins began talking about laughter. And that was fine, because we'd always known laughter 
was good for us, but now science had proved it [laughs]. So then the FFIGs, these emotions that 
upset us, are the high calorie emotions. They give us a push, but if we get too many, we get sick. 
And these are Fear, Frustration, Inferiority and Guilt. And certainly, our culture does much to 
make the older people feel inferior, and you're frustrated. Nobody wants to listen, and you can't 
do the things that you're used to. I can't go out for walks, I can't go swimming in the beach. So 
many things I can't do. And then fear, ever since I fell and broke my hip in Berkeley, I've been 
afraid of falling again, and guilt you do feel-- there's so many little things you can feel guilty 
about. I got to wondering if when I was so busy, I had neglected my children, but they assured-- I 
called them the other night, they assured me they didn't feel neglected even when I was busy 
doing other things. There's also guilt. It's sort of a combination of guilt and inferiority. But there 
are so many different groups that are doing good things, and things that I've been active in for 
years, and they're all in trouble now financially, and they're all asking me for money. As we 
know, the federal budgets are being cut, all the good things are in trouble, and I haven't got 
money to give everybody, and it just breaks my heart not to keep supporting these things that I've 
always been able to do something physically for, and that I can't help them. Well, I got off with 
my A's and the FFIGs. The thing about A's and FFIGs. If you come home some night and you 
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want to slam the door and kick the cat, somebody has been giving you FFIGs that day, trying to 
make you feel inferior. On the other hand, you may work very hard all day. You're sort of tired, 
but you're on top of the world, because you've been getting your A's, you've been feeling those 
good things, and we found that if you do get down, this is what I tell you-- tell them, that you 
could do something about it.  
 
Helen Ansley  11:28 
If you've had to too many FFIGs, too many calories, you know, you reach for the vitamins. You 
go get your orange juice and your chicken soup. And if you've had a bad day, you really reach 
for some form of friendliness, of relaxation, of the A's. And if that doesn't work, if your 
stomach's still upset, you take Bisodol, so with your emotions, you try to figure out what you can 
do about them. If you don't care, just stop thinking about what you can do to give it up. And 
there are a lot of things that you can do, and it helps, particularly, you do it with somebody else. 
And if that doesn't work, if you really, you know, had pizza, and beer, and chocolate sodas, and I 
don't know what else you put in there, but it can make you very sick, and the only thing to do 
with them is to take a physick or emetic. In other words, you get rid of your emotions. You spill 
them out. But you're very careful, and you try not to dump them in any place that will embarrass 
you later. Try-- I know I tried not to dump my troubles on my family or on some neighbors. And 
yet, if you have-- if you have a close friend, that's fine. But we don't have-- we lose our close 
friends. We don't have grandmothers, and aunts, and uncles to go to, and it used to be the 
ministers and the doctors came to call. But we don't have house visits. And yes, I could probably 
pay $25, or $30, or $35 to go to a doctor for 15 minutes to dump all my troubles on him. And I 
don't like that idea, so I talk about how we need groups of people working together. But then the 
wonderful thing about emotions that you can do for yourself. They differ very much from food, 
because with food, we are either helped or hurt by what we get, but with emotions, the emotions 
which we give other people help us or hurt us as much as what is given to us. So when you're 
feeling lonely, for goodness sakes, look for somebody else that's lonely. And if you, you know-- 
thinking nobody loves me, there are little things you can do to show somebody that you love 
them. We don't get hugged very much, but a touch will help. And if you just touch somebody's 
shoulder, going by-- that shows that you care-- [bell rings]. There goes my wonderful old clock, 
striking again, reminding me of many past days with my husband. 
 
Helen Ansley  21:23 
Well, that's the gist of my A's and FFIGs talk. Oh, I usually end up with a little verse. "There is a 
destiny that makes us brothers. No one goes his way alone. All that we send into the lives of 
others comes back into our own. And hell is a place with all the good things of life on the table, 
and the men and women seated at that table are gaunt and starving because they have stretched 
their arms so much trying to grab these things, their arms won't go into their-- they can't get the 
food to their mouths. And heaven is a place with a similar temple. There too, the men and 
women have long arms. They're happy and healthy, because they've been stretching their arms 
feeding each other". So, this is a very popular talk. It has helped-- this idea has helped me 
understand myself ever since 1948, when I put this together, and I find that it is understood by 
almost any age. I've given it to Sunday school class, about seventh, eighth grade. I've given it 
recently to high school, two high school classes in two high schools in Issaquah. And one, there 
were 400 kids. They understand, and after I'd given in one smaller class, I saw the one of the 
girls six months later, and she said, You know, ever since you were in our class, I've been either 
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writing or telephoning my grandmother once a week. She's down in California, just to keep that 
[?bar?] when families are so broken up, there's nobody around. So I keep hearing from that talk, 
and everywhere I go, I'm asked particularly to give that talk. It seems to help people understand 
themselves, but also, what happens in aging and what you need and what you're not getting. 
Maybe it helps you understand what you can do for yourself. So I not only give that talk, but I 
talk about the new image of aging as one not of declining after 65, but of continuing to grow. But 
I know that life is full of the ups and the downs. When I get too many things, I go way down, 
then I have to start something new. Start on something new. Get some new purpose. And I think 
all of our lives, we sort of account-- lose one thing seems to come to an end. We have to start 
over again. Life isn't over. But it's a little hard at my age to keep finding new things, and I am 
delighted that what I have found seems to have-- I found these things, the-- there's a lot of talk 
about morals and ethics now. And it's my English literature-- English major background that has 
made me understand. Morals comes from the Latin word mores, which are customs or laws of a 
community. And we're involved in a lot of living communities, particularly, the different 
religious communities, have different rules, and the different geographical nations involved have 
different rules. And those morals, those things are mostly for the protection of that group, and it 
tells you what you must not do, whereas ethics are the things that we have to figure out for 
ourselves. Choose if we're-- there are all these different morals we're subjected to. How do we 
choose? And ethics comes from the Greek philosophers to strain, to sift, and so we have to think 
of these different things that people are saying are right, what seems right for us. How do we 
make that choice? Well, I was taught that you choose by thinking, What will be the greatest good 
for the greatest number in the long run. And then also the choice of working for something, 
rather than against something. Those two things-- and then there's a little one. Well, how 
important is-- will this choice be a year from now, or 10 years from now? Sometimes it'll be 
quite important if you're making a long move or deciding about your future, but those are the sort 
of philosophical things that I've been getting at lately and that people seem to want me to talk 
about. And of course, now the next thing that is facing-- or two things are facing me, sort of. 
Two and a half years ago, I made the choice. I had an opportunity to come here to Hutchison 
House, and it is just five miles from my son's family, which is nice. I don't-- they're all very 
busy. I don't see them very much, and now the children are away from home, but at least they're 
there in an emergency, and they're not too far. I get-- I have a meal with them at least every two 
weeks, and perhaps often. But I made that choice to live here. My next thing in my life is-- I'm 
looking forward to my death. I've had all these other experiences. What comes next? After 
you've raised your family, and they're all grown up, and you've done everything? And so, my 
next problem is to find a way to die, so that I [?won't?] get to die of cancer, or Alzheimer's or 
[inaudible]. But not only where, but how? Or not only how am I going to die, but where? 
Because you don't die in your family's home anymore. For one thing, they prolong our lives too 
long. They don't prolong our life, really, they prolong our death, and they make it a great burden 
to our families, to ourselves, and to the government. Why should all this money be paid out, I 
think, near the end of our lives, where we've had a good life, and we'd like to sort of leave it? 
And so I keep raising this question, and I get asked to talk about the ethics, and I've seen that the 
greatest good, or the greatest number in the long run, is for me to somehow die soon. 
 
Helen Ansley  29:41 
I find a lot of people are really interested in this. One of the greatest problems is that everybody 
dies, but nobody talks about it. My families don't talk about it, and you don't-- so there's a lot of 
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unfinished business, and I have-- there is if we can finish up our business and get peace all 
doing-- accomplish certain things, set a target date, it could be done. I talked to one young man 
at a nursing home. He said, Yes, there was a little old lady there, and she was a good friend of 
his, and he told her about a program that was coming up in two weeks, and she said, I'm not 
going to be here. He said, Of course, you are. A week later, he said, Remember, next week, that 
program? She said, I told you I'm not going to be here. And the night before, he passed her room, 
she waved to him and said, Goodbye, Max. He waved back, Goodbye. She died that night. There 
is more and more evidence that people can prepare for dying and have a good death, a dignified 
death, if we're willing to figure out how to do it. If we can go to the moon, I think we ought to be 
able to figure out how to die when we consciously determine it, and we ought to be able to do it 
in a nice place. And so I have this idea, a place I want to be. A place with a long view, but a 
place that would be called either the last resort, or the way out, where people could get together, 
and have somebody's music, and play some games, but have a lot of good talk, and nobody 
would say, You mustn't die. We need you. They would-- There would be a group of us all 
wanting to go, because I'm sure that what comes next, there's something for me to do there, and it 
seems as though if I can just help with finding ways that we could make the transition so that we-
- it doesn't ruin the economy and it doesn't ruin our children. They feel so bad and-- I do want to 
find better ways to die, and that's what I'm asked to talk on which, to my surprise, more and more 
people are willing to hear me. Because for a while, people said, But don't mention death, but 
don't mention death. And now, they find that if we could do it with a smile, a touch of humor, 
and as we say, we'd like to die-- 
 